Firstly, thanks for such an informative website. The book you put together was worth every penny, and did manage to answer a lot of questions.
I have been doing a lot of research before I make my move to Russia, and in particular St Petersburg. I have spent a lot of time at the ESL café, and its been a bit disappointing to see how negative everyone there is. From what I can gather though, a fair percentage are people that seem to have an agenda of some sort or a major chip on their shoulder. What exactly is an acceptable wage in Russia thee days? Im not expecting to live a life of luxury. If I was, I would not be going to Russia in the first place. Hell, I would not be considering teaching. Teachers don’t earn real money anywhere.
I would like to have a few beers every now and then, maybe have a decent meal or go to a club from time to time. Maybe have enough to travel a little once every 2-3 months for a few days. From what I can see, a lot of people are suggesting that a wage of $800 after tax, even with a flat included, is going to mean a life of borderline poverty for me?
Is this really the case? I find to believe. If you have a roof over your head, what the hell are you spending $800 a month on? Lets say half of that is for travel and groceries, and another $100 a month on clothes and other non recurring expenses, that leaves about $300 a month for entertainment. Im sure with privates I could bump my income up a little too.
Am I missing something here?
19th Sep '07 1:36 PM
Hi SilentBob!
OK - Let's look at some current local prices: $1 = (about 25.5 rubles)
0.5l beer in a bar - anything from 40 rubles (local Russian bar) to 250 rubles (Irish/English/foreigners bar)
0.5 can of Russian beer from shop - about 20 rubles
"Business Lunch" - from 140 - 600 rubles depending on where, of course
Municipal bus ticket (per journey and some bus routes are quite long) - 14 rubles
Commercial bus ticket 10-28 rubles
Metro ticket (travel anywhere on whole network for fixed price) - 14 rubles
Bottle of Russian brandy - 120 rubles
3 litre Coca Cola - 30 rubles
1 litre pack of orange juice 30-40 rubles
Utility charge on a one-room flat - varies but let's say 1200 rubles (if, indeed, you have to pay it)
1 kg steak - about 170 rubles
200 gram pack of bacon - 48 rubles
10 eggs - 25-35 rubles
1 litre milk 15-25 rubles
The list could go on and on....
In my opinion, $800/month 'spending money' should be enough to live 'reasonably comfortably' in SPB given that you have no rent to pay.... Many native Russian families live on a lot less... But your earnings here will NOT enable you to travel home to see the folks every other week, nor will you build up an extremely large nest-egg which you will then be able to blow when you get home...
But - if you wanna go out making whoopy every night, drink 20 litres of beer a night in the most expensive clubs, shop in the most expensive places buying imported goods, buy a new TV/hi-fi/video/DVD player/mobile phone every other week, then you might just find yourself getting a bit short.... (
I think that, by now, you should have got my general idea...
PS: What's "tax"....???
19th Sep '07 4:29 PM
Hi mememe
Thanks for your response. Its much appreciated. What would one consider to be a fair wage these days for a teacher? I know thats kinda like asking how long a piece of string is though
Im looking to bankroll my travels. Its an extended career break, not a permanent shift. If I can grab a couple of beers every now and then and hit the odd club, Im more then happy.
19th Sep '07 7:48 PM
It all depends on what you want to do... But I would suggest that on $1500 spending money a month you should have a pretty good time and still be able to put a little bit away for a rainy day or the fare home.
However - you mention a 'fair wage' and it is unlikely that you will find many, if any schools willing to pay that on an employed basis for a mere teacher. The usual arrangement is (as you seem to know) that you get limited support from some schools to get you here, promises will often be broken and often the flat turns out to be an absolute sh*hole that you don't really care to spend time in.. If you haven't done it already, scout around here for the horror stoies....
I'm not sure of the current rates for ' invitees' - but I would say that a newcomer would be doing pretty well if they managed to screw $800 plus a flat+support out of a school.
You are also tied to being run around all over the place and being generally p*ss*d around, often by some incompetent little Hitler-like DOS who has been 'promoted' cos no one else wanted the job...
These are not the musings of an embittered ex-language school teacher that you are listening to here, btw... I, myself, did it the sensible way and came over on a personally arranged invitation and visa, then I worked my way upwards as best I could - but always on a non-contract basis... The current rate for a fairly well qualified and experienced teacher in a school in SPB is about $14-18 per academic hour (45 minutes) - but may be as little as you are stupid enough to work for!! Work it out - You wouldn't want to teach much more than 30 academic hours a week.. So 30 X 15 = $450 a week - but most schools won't give you that much work but instead will fill your time with relaxing (urgh!) and unpaid travelling to all corners of the city and split shifts (so you can never relax)... I would guess that you would be doing pretty well if you ended up collecting a thousand dollars a month...
I have been here for more than 5 years and now all my teaching is in private groups or 1-2-1s at home and I do quite well, considering the short hours I work... But the main advantage is that I am in control of my working life, decide how much and who I teach and, in general, don't take no cr*p!!! But that won't happen overnight so, if you're only coming for a short while, then the school approach would probably be better for you... possible more stable - but not so lucrative.
If, however, you change your mind, plan to stay for longer and later step out from beneath the 'generous' benefits that a contract (which isn't really a contract) gives...then beware!!! Flat rental/purchase prices in SPB and elsewhere in Russia have soared in recent years and a flat in a goodish location in reasonable condition will probably cost you an arm and a leg...
Hope this is also useful...
ESL Cafe sucks bigtime :) 19th Sep '07 8:13 PM
Hello SilentBob,
First off - many thanks for buying the book! I'm very glad you've found it useful.
Living costs were one of the things I skirted over a bit in it - it's something that's just too hard to quantify. A lot depends on the standards you're used to and are expecting.
All of what has been said here is pretty sage advice. mememe's prices are a good guide to day-to-day costs (those are much the same in Moscow, btw).
When I was making $1500 a month I could eat out fairly regularly, take short breaks and put money away.
I've lived on a little over $600 fairly comfortably when times were hard, but I have cheap rent and even at that I couldn't afford not to count the pennies.
At about $2000 a month I was spending every/every other weekend in Moscow, travelling on expensive trains and eating out in nice restaurants when I was there.
I'd say a fair 'wage' for a teacher on a contract today would be no less than $1500 if no accommodation is provided. $1000 if accommodation is provided.
An apartment in SPb is not likely to cost much less than $450, and it will take you a while to find one once you've arrived. I have a young American teacher lodging (tempted to say 'lodged' that would conjure up funny images) in my own apartment right now - he's having trouble finding a place, as is almost everyone else he knows here.
I can get by on a stupidly miserable amount of cash per month if I try hard. But usually I don't.
It's still important not to look at it as doing the minimum of work to squeeze by - unexpected expenses crop up, and they can screw you big time.
ESL cafe is a very bitchy, whiny place populated by some of the most irritating people I've ever had the misfortune to cross virtual paths with. VisaRus is far nicer
Tax 19th Sep '07 8:21 PM
Oh yes... tax in relation to English teachers is something that schools often deduct from newcomers' pay.
Foreign teachers work off the books, the schools don't pay tax on your wages, don't even talk to a school that quotes you an hourly wage and then says, "after tax that will be x$ per hour..." - they're bullshitting.
Talk only in terms of in-your-pocket cash. The people who say that they or their schools 'pay all the taxes and comply with all the regulations' are either lying or being fleeced.
Even Russians don't pay tax on their salaries - in a lot of companies (more than not, I think) there are 'black' and 'white' salaries. The white part is what goes through the books and tax is paid on - usually it's just a nominal amount. The black part is cash, which is picked up in a (usually) white envelope. Although I once had a school in Vyborg that paid me in pink envelopes
20th Sep '07 8:31 AM
Thanks for your insight guys.
As you said in your book, it does seem as if freelance work is the best way to go. Maybe start off with one of the larger schools until I find my bearings, and then start freelancing once I have a grip on everything. Cant see it taking more then a few months. Im fortunate enough to have a fairly large cash reserve I have built up for travel over the last few years. (something I have been planning for almost 2 years now, although the decision to go to Russia was quite recent) It should serve me well from the looks of it
I have a strong business background. Are the companies there prepared to deal with freelance teachers, or do they prefer to deal with established schools? Have you managed to secure much work or know of people that have?
Thanks again for your help. It was nice to get a response that did not read "dont waste your time coming here" for a change
20th Sep '07 8:56 AM
Interesting....
Well, the general advice remains the same. Take on freelance work from schools to get your bearings, then gradually drop off the ones that pay least - be ruthless, always aim higher, but try to keep good terms if possible in case you need to go back.
In your case, only take classes in businesses, i.e. not in the school classrooms. Try to steal some clients, if you can, but do it verry verrrrrrry subtly. Aim to cut out all the schools within 8 months to a year or so.
Some businesses do put everything through their books, particularly the multinationals or just the plain old Russian sweatshop branches of EU/US companies. In this case they'll only deal with a school. Megafon springs to mind as one Russian company that won't work directly with teachers.
In any case though, it's also possible to teach the staff in a business and have them pay directly from their own pockets. This is much simpler.
All the company classes I had were from word-of-mouth - someone working in a company where I taught (including teaching for schools) told their friends in another company that were looking for a teacher. Usually it's the teacher and not the school that gets the recommendation - Russians are used to the fact that the quality of teachers in schools is highly variable.
An interesting example is that one school had my CV on record and sent it to a software company, despite the fact they knew that I didn't teach any more. Since I had a list of tech companies as long as your arm on my CV, they asked for me over a couple of inexperienced teachers.
The fun part was that a manager in the company already knew me from VisaRus, so I got a very interesting PM asking whether I'd suddenly started teaching again. They tried to get me in without the school (companies are sometimes just as keen to cut the schools out - indiividual agreements with teachers means no contracts and more flexibility on both sides.)
The even more fun part is that the person who contacted me is now my girlfriend, although I point blank refused to go and teach for her company
As for the "don't bother coming" attitude - I never quite got my head round that. I used to frequent eslcafe a lot, especially when I was working alone in a software co. and hideously bored. I eventually got sick of the jaded attitudes and practically never went back. I did answer the odd post now and again, and eventually got kicked off last Christmas, presumably for plugging VisaRus too much
20th Sep '07 9:02 AM
I always forget something...
What is your business background? I think there are a lot of potential openings for native English speakers here with business skills.
I have ended up with a string of random, small engagements with various companies - most notably as a marketing consultant! (don't laugh!) - this comes from having sat through final year marketing lectures and knowing at least the basic principles, coupled with wide (consumer-end) experience of Western marketing. Not many people in Russia have that. So I translate, write marketing copy and advise on slogans, banners, web design etc.
It's a whole lot more fun than teaching English, plus I get to boss people who are much smarter than me around big fat ego trip for bobs12
20th Sep '07 10:13 AM
I have a strong sales and marketing background, with about 9 years experience. I work as a consultant now, selling news feeds, financial content and white papers to corporates and government mostly.
I would have preferred not to put my career on hold completely, but with my desire to travel, my options were limited because I dont speak the native tounge. Numbers are numbers for accountants, schematics are schematics for engineers. When your entire proffesion is based on your ability to deal with people, not knowing the local language was a concern for me. Its an assumption that my skill set is worthless without understanding the local language though. Again, finding information is difficult, and even with so many of the multi nationals setting up shop, its difficult to determine if they are willing to hire people who dont speak the local language.
I actually wanted to do Columbia for a while, but eventually decided on St P's because of its location. It will allow me to see a lot of North Eastern Europe, and with the demand for teachers would allow me to push my savings a bit further. I do have strong people skills and know how to work an audience. Its a skill that needs constant attention though. Teaching will just ensure I dont get too rusty.
I do believe that one has to work in a country though to experience it fully, which is why I was prepared to do pretty much anything but scrub toilets. Although, Im sure even that will build character
20th Sep '07 10:41 AM
Nice! I think you could pull it off here. Sales and marketing are big sore points for a lot of tech companies.
Hell, it's a sore point for me, too I need someone to sell school memberships on VisaRus!
I know of a Swiss guy who was working on a building site, I think with fairly minimal Russian.
After a while some people will go to extraordinary lengths to get out of teaching...
20th Sep '07 12:50 PM
You're a bit wrong here - his Russian was almost perfect
picked up only half of the story.. as usual
Yeah.. I must have tried too hard persuading you to work for us..
20th Sep '07 1:14 PM
Hi all!!
Sorry to possibly put a possible damper on anything that may be planned... But scanning through the posts here I notice the distinct lack of one thing that could (but not necessarily will) cause a problem...
SilentBob: Have you ever taught English before - business or otherwise? I don't mean presenting a business seminar, I mean things likes nouns, verbs, adverbs, tenses, relative and participle clauses etc etc...
The reason that I ask is that in the UK we weren't taught all these 'grammary things' at school... When I first started teaching I probably knew less about these things than my students... (poor lambs But I s'pose that I am still here and working 5 years on so it must be possible!!! But I wouldn't bet on cracking it in 'a few months".....
Sure, I can see that you can speak it - but I am afraid that the two are not quite the same. If you go down the business sector approach, you can give the most fantastic presentation imaginable - but the value will go completely unappreciated if the listeners just don't understand what you're going on about...
I am already hating myself intensely for writing all the above.... It almost translates as "Don't waste your time..etc etc..." !!! ... Sorry...
20th Sep '07 1:14 PM
Haha, oops
I have the attention span of a goldfish these days
20th Sep '07 1:31 PM
Just thought I'd mention it before we all get too excited about having another beer partner... It's not exactly back to ESLsville - but it might, of course, affect the possibilities...... and timespans....
31st Oct '07 3:29 PM
Another one for the "Where are you now?" board, I fear......
Waddidi say?.....
13th Nov '07 8:54 AM
Thanks for the honesty
You are spot on when you say I have no experience. I just speak english so deliciously I figured I could wing it
I have decided to do a 4 week TEFL course at home before I come to Russia. Just to give me the basics. Im going to sign up with one of the big schools that has an opening in the beginning until I have more experience. If I enjoy it, Ill make a plan and start looking to freelance a bit after that. Guess you have to pay your dues.
Ill try a few of the other smaller schools though at the same time. Im coming over for three weeks to scope it out before I take the plunge, so Ill be able to visit the schools and knock on some doors. Maybe I get lucky with this approach
I have saved a substantial amount of money, so I will be able to supplement my salary with my savings. Not ideal, but it will have to do for a while I guess. I guess Im fortunate there. I could probably live for about 2 years solid without working, but that kinda defeats the purpose
Now to try and find a school that wont force me to work split shifts. Thanks for all your help guys. I think I am in for a rude awakening, but change is as good as a holiday eh?
14th Nov '07 2:17 AM
Welcome back (un)silentbob!!
A good plan..... Let us know when you arrive and also if you have time for a beer between your door knocking....
Cheers!
14th Nov '07 8:51 AM
One other question
Does the industry come to a standstill in summer? Do the larger schools stay open in summer? I have heard that Russia goes on a 3 month siesta during summer
14th Nov '07 11:39 AM
Very close. There are far, far fewer regular courses running in summertime, but there are quite a lot of 'summer intensive' courses, which is basically the schools making a fast buck from kids and people on holiday and by underpaying otherwise out-of-work teachers. It's also when quite a lot of backpackers come over looking for work. Then in September-October you get the university and college dropouts
Also there are some language camps in Scandinavia for Russian kids (best avoided unless you really want to live alongside students or see very small parts of Scandinavia - usually a forest, or really need the work).
Summer not the best time to come over looking for immediate work, but late summer good if you can afford to have fun while getting your feet in doors ready for the start of term.
Negativity on.... Visarus? 20th Nov '07 10:18 AM
I didn't notice any siesta this summer or last summer. I only have records since August, showing 137.25ah taught that month, 138.5 in September and 136.75 in October. July didn't seem any slower, as I recall.
What am I doing wrong? Looking too hard for work? Prepared to travel around town a bit too much? Getting up in the morning?
What I don't do is summer camps, nor in fact do I teach children much at all. So I think the demand is there to be met.
20th Nov '07 9:01 PM
You do SO understate the case Cairo!!
My own records show September = 131.7 akh, October = 217.8 akh and 187.7 akh (conservatively projected) for November - but absolutely NOTHING for July and August (and part of September). Many 'sensible' teachers sweat their tabs off when it is cold and miserable in Russia..... and then take about 3 months hols in the summer (to enjoy the almost 4 weeks of searing hot weather that we get waaaaaay-up-north here in SPB...!!!)
....and I don't even travel to teach either - so it can't be that.....) Aha!... But I DO get up in the morning.... perhaps that is it?
Sure!! - there is plenty of work here during the summer months (if you know where to look) but I, personally, am not that interested...
But for (un)SilentBob, if he plans to arrive in summer, the work might not be quite so forthcoming.... apart from summer camps, that is.... with, (as bobs12 says) the views of the forests and lakes...
(